The Future of Rhythm Games
- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Again with the copyright end of things, I’m not quite sure where the cutoff for “representation” of music starts. A MID with only 5 notes to represent a song may not be close enough to be considered copyrighted. Obviously, if MIDs are copyrighted, the game wouldn’t be able to have a database for sharing customs built into it, in which case creating it would be pointless. My goal is to get everything about the customs process into this game, aside from album art and audio, which would need to be supplied from a computer. Lyrics may also fit into this category.
If I have to rely on a third party “under the table” service in order for players to share songs, there would be no point in releasing the new game, because, as you said, it would be RB3+. IF the custom song process is implemented in its entirety, I believe that would be more than enough to dictate what would theoretically be “Rock Band 4.” That’s if I pitch it to Harmonix, seeing as any series I create would have a different name.
Audience wise, I’m well aware that these ideas only appeal to the hardcore rhythm game players, but, to be honest, are there really any casuals still around? Casuals tend only to buy rhythm games once per generation, unless they make a major upgrade (like keyboard). As you can probably tell by the fact that I’m advocating custom songs over the revenue-generating DLC, I’m not out to be a millionaire, at least not with this game. The audience for this game is right here, on this forum, a bit on SH, a bit on FoF, and the hardcore players who still play rhythm games without customs. This game is meant for the long-term enjoyment of the few, versus the short-term enjoyment of the many. Maybe it will end up attracting new players. It depends on how many steps we can simplify and how thorough the tutorial videos end up. I didn’t plan on releasing this without tutorials, in case that was assumed.
And I never said there would be no “official” content. Maybe my dev team would make official, HQ charts. Hell, maybe even the CCC could be our official releases. That’s not quite the point. You do pose an interesting question on the rating system though. I hadn’t thought what would happen to ratings after someone edited the chart. I will ponder this, seeing as a rating system will be integral in separating the good, the bad, and the ugly. We could force songs to be playtested like they are here, but I think that hampers the “freedom to chart and release” aspect of it because newer players couldn’t release songs until they start charting better than they are capable of. I can relate to this. Since I am new to charting vocals and Pro Keys, it would take quite a while for me to fix one of my charts after it was critiqued in play testing. Sure, I could play my song, fixed or not, but what if I wanted to share the chart with my friend? I couldn’t in-game, trashing the point of having everything built in. This would kill any chance of new authors joining the fray.
And as I stated in the OP, the purple guitar and drum inputs are experimental. They seem good in theory, but they’d need tested before making them official.
What I think will make the charting less daunting is interface. We don’t worry about it because we’ve done it a thousand times, but there are quite a few technical aspects of charts that would be accessible to anyone if some question were worded right. Take drum mix events for example. Most of us use templates that have them built in, but there are some cases where you have to switch them. A new author would be confused by looking at the raw event, but they could understand it if we had a small dialogue that asked “Do you have audio stems or a normal music file?”. If they select stems, the game could then proceed to ask them something akin to “What audio files do you have for drums (select all that apply)” then put check boxes for kick, snare, etc. It takes simple dialogues like that to simplify a lot of technicalities. The only things we can’t automate are the actual charting and tempo mapping. Those are the most important parts of a song obviously, but users would be able to spend more time on those if they didn’t have to worry about technicalities.
Which brings me to another feature I plan on adding to the OP, song checklists. I already mentioned some type of group collaboration software, but I’m thinking we could generate a checklist whenever the user creates a new song. Then, the game can auto-check some things off, while the user can check off others. This will ensure that new authors don’t miss anything like drum events or maybe even practice sections.
Well, I’m not here to debate so I’ll just state my opinion and be done with it. Your ambition is commendable but you are almost certainly biting off way more than you can chew. I am a game developer myself and can tell you that you’d need a team of 20+ people for this project for 1-2 years and that is being optimistic.
I’d suggest that you dial it way back and narrow your focus. Take out at least half the features and maybe you have a shot. By way of example, if you focused only on guitar, I think it would be really cool if a guitar was made with many more than 5 lanes, anywhere from 6-8 lanes and perhaps even all the way up to 18. You’d stand a better chance at having authors creating guitar/bass charts than you would full band charts, although you will still face an uphill battle if you go that route.
Well, that’s my advice. Pull it back and narrow the focus. Hope it goes well.
Perhaps a guitar/bass only game similar to FoF or PS would be a good idea for the college project. It would be a good chance to test the 6 button guitar, as well as give companies a general idea how custom song support could be implemented in a rhythm game. I’m not sure if it could compete with those games with only guitar though.
To be honest, I never quite expected the game to work for the college project, considering the cost of licenses and the probable need of custom controllers. If it did end up a college project, I knew it would be dumbed down from what’s been debated here. But I do hope to create a high-budget game based on these ideas once I’m a part of a company.
Perhaps I could still make some of the programs in college though, such as the program to transfer files to a flash drive. Of course, that may not be necessary/supported next generation.
Well just remember: a college project is intended to help you learn about all sorts of things involved with software development. Just because this is not a commercially viable idea and a logistic nightmare, it doesn’t meant that it won’t be valuable to your education. I know after Portal there’s sort of a college game school expectation now that you have to come up with a killer project that will dovetail into a commercial hit, but Valve can’t come in and sweep *everyone* off their feet, can they?
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif” />Just invest yourself in the project. And please do stick to rhythm games! If it’s something you’re *passionate* about, it will drive you to work harder, and that’s something that will be quite clear when you talk to people about it. That’s what makes employers want to hire you. You might not save the future of rhythm games during the span of your coursework, but anyone already in the industry will have their ears and eyes open for who to hire in the future when rhythm games go through another cycle.
Perhaps the not-so-secret secret here is that every one of your ideas has been already weighed and considered by the AAA developers in the last generation of music games. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been thought of! But the thing is, they shot down these ideas precisely *because* they had commercial considerations to fulfill. As a student without the stranglehold of a fickle marketplace or publisher around your neck, you *do* have the freedom to explore this stuff, and exploration is what makes you learn: figuring out for and by *yourself* that something isn’t going to work is sometimes more valuable than hearing people tell you that on a forum.
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif” /> Failure often times teaches us more than success.At any rate, any number of indie bands will give you their stems and permission to use their lyrics, so don’t worry about that. You should probably forget anything needing custom hardware for now: you will learn just as much by coding for 5 gem lanes as you do for 6 or 8 or 17! If you want to delve into user generated content pipelines, then that’s probably a pretty chunky project on its own that you might want to hold off on. But the notion of adding social connections to the experience and more customization even to an rpg extent, *that* will be more immediately leverageable in your career no matter what happens.
Did anything ever come of this? ( I apologize for bringing back such an old thread ).
I am confused whether I should like the idea or not for this game.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.