Our future
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As we all know, RB4 has been announced. How does this impact C3? C3 started when we put together an effort to do one more week of DLC for the community. It was supposed to be an all-star effort from customs authors to deliver a big pack of songs. During that process espher pitched taking on weekly releases so that HMX’s streak of delivering new songs every week wouldn’t be broken. 2 years later here we are, having produced more than 100 weeks of releases and we are projected to surpass 2,000,000 downloads before the end of the year.
Before C3 was a thing we were all, more or less, already creating customs and releasing them on our own individual threads on various forums. The reason why we came together to offer a single place for customs was that Harmonix had stopped producing new content. If that wasn’t the case we would have probably never even thought of structuring ourselves this way. We knew that releasing custom content could have an impact on what people would buy but we also knew that the way we operated was benefiting in some way Harmonix. We lost count of the number of times people said they bought DLC because they discovered some artist through customs and so many users have admitted to having stuck with Rock Band only because of customs content.
And that was all true for a “new DLC-free†world. But as of later this year things will be different with Rock Band 4 out and new DLC coming. We know how much authors have poured into this, mostly because we admins ourselves have poured a lot into our collective, so we want you to know that a lot of thought has gone into this during many weeks. We pictured a number of scenarios but all lead to the same conclusion: once Rock Band 4 is out we need to stop doing weekly releases. We owe it to ourselves, for the mission we took on when we started and we owe it to Harmonix. To this day, if, and it’s a big if, customs have convinced a single user not to buy some official content, we are extremely confident that more songs were bought and will be bought because of this community than songs that were not. We can easily go back to a number of threads in various forums where user would say “I dusted off my guitar to play this new custom and I’m checking out the store to buy something newâ€. And when new DLC hit the store earlier this year a lot of users answered our call to buy DLC even if they don’t like to support Harmonix. However, our experience, what our users say about RB4, our poll, what we have built does not assure us that the same can be said for when RB4 hits the stores. Not only that. Interest in customs will be not as prominent as it is in a DLC-free world and maintaining weekly releases could be very demanding anyway.
So, does this mean C3 is done? First of all, this has never been just our call. For 2 years we have existed because those who could even just politely ask us to drop this haven’t. As long as they don’t ask us for that, we will be here. Our forums will certainly be here, in example. As far as C3 authors go, when weekly releases are over all C3 authors can release material on their own with obviously no objections on our part. We don’t know yet how we will handle the post RB4 era, it’s something we could probably discuss together. It could be spot releases, it could be nothing, it could be keys-driven material, it could be just helping the community… we don’t know. We have at least 6 months to figure it out. Everyone of us have a different take on what we should do so we will surely debate that. The C3 banner will not dissolve, regardless of what we do, it’s just a matter of choosing how to go on.
In the meantime, we have lined up a lot of great material, including theme, artists and decades packs and we have a treasure trove of pro keys content that should keep the synth community very happy. There will also be time to thank all the people involved and to look back and what honestly has surpassed all expectations and may even deliver some surprises, but I think these next 6 months should be all about releasing great stuff and having fun.
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif”> We will announce this decision to the community in the next few days, please don’t divulge yet, we just wanted to present it to our collegues and friends who deserve a lot of praise for what they do before we make it public. I am also personally a bit emotionally drained so I don’t even know how to wrap up the post, it’s just gonna end with a full stop and I’ll grab some sleep. 
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif”>Also, I’m sure that “C3 stops DLC because RB4 comes out” is understandable and expected.
The bigger question I think ought to be what will happen with already released content.
Remove it all? Only remove songs that are released by HMX going forward?
You and I have discussed this, so I have answers. Just putting this out there for discussion.
I am saddened but I do agree with this decision. I do think concentrating on keys heavy songs might be the way to go but it’s something to talk about.
Something farottone didn’t mention in his post is that we’re at least going to try and put together a proper community customs platform, something like our database but sexier and open to everyone. We already have people complaining that it’s hard to search Other Customs, so hopefully something like that will help keep the RB3 customs scene alive in general while RB4 is going strong.
No promises, because it’s a lot of work, but we’re gonna give it a shot.
When you say that I get flashbacks to that video you posted recently with the Rocksmith guys and how he was saying there were 10,000 customs on their database
As someone who won’t be utilizing RB4 any time soon, I am sorry to see the end of the road for the C3 weekly releases, but of course it is understandable. You admins have done an amazing job piloting this ship, this decision falls well within the spirit of C3.
But I have a different perspective – and I’m sure I’m missing some kind of point, so please tell me where my logic fails. Let’s say my hypothetical collective makes custom map packs for Duke Nukem 3D since 3D Realms “stopped producing maps for download”. We do this for two years without a whisper from “the powers that be”, then they announce “Duke Nukem 4D” for the latest-gen consoles and the return of downloadable maps for that game – and that game alone. DN3D can’t be played on latest-gen machines, DN4D cannot be played on older consoles. DN3D customs maps cannot be used on DN4D and vice-versa. Aside from DN4D releasing maps already available via custom maps for DN3D (which could/would/should then be removed, I agree) how does continuing to release custom maps for DN3D impact DN4D – they might as well be completely different games and, in reality, they are. I understand “supporting the creator”, but whether or not it’s one person or a group of them releasing these “maps”, they are for an unsupported game – one its creators left behind for years. As long as no one is distributing maps of DN4D for play on DN3D, and as long as DN3D maps are removed if a duplicate appears for DN4D, I fail to see the problem. They look like completely different animals to me.
I get that this probably doesn’t fall squarely in the center of C3’s founding spirit, but things have changed since the inception of this site. Where does my thinking go off the rails here?
It’s not a stop to customs completely, just to the C3 weekly stuff. Nothing is stopping anyone from releasing Other Customs, and there will likely be something to replace the C3 stuff in a way (like more complete* projects than just what anyone could do in the Other Customs).
I think the big deciding factor is that with HMX doing weekly releases, the admins/C3 authors/ect do not have to put the extra stress on ourselves to get material out in a timeframe. I don’t believe the Admins or the C3 authors will completely stop putting out “C3’ish level material”, it’s just that it won’t be on the timeframe and structure of a Weekly Friday release. It will be more when the drive to chart and polish strikes them.
It’s not a stop to customs completely, just to the C3 weekly stuff. Nothing is stopping anyone from releasing Other CustomsYes, I understand that, I was addressing the collective’s releases specifically.
I think the big deciding factor is that with HMX doing weekly releases, the admins/C3 authors/ect do not have to put the extra stress on ourselves to get material out in a timeframe.
I didn’t read that in Farottone’s OP, though it certainly makes sense. What I read was concern regarding HMX.
I don’t believe the Admins or the C3 authors will completely stop putting out “C3’ish level material”, it’s just that it won’t be on the timeframe and structure of a Weekly Friday release. It will be more when the drive to chart and polish strikes them.Perhaps, perhaps not. I imagine that depends on the individual, but it really doesn’t address my question.
Colonel, I have been probably the one trying the hardest to find a way to make it work anyway and I initially asked to take a few months to think this over. However, after a couple of days of thinking about it I kept going back to one nightmare scenario: a user who owns both RB4 and RB3 who posts “Wooo! Journey 6-pack, amazing! Not like the crap HMX is releasing this Friday. And this stuff is free, it’s a no brainer what I download this week!”
That does it for us, as simple as that. It’s bad enough that our poll has people posting that they prefer us to HMX (you may have noticed I have specifically NOT added an option that lets user say they would stick with customs anyway), but if we had written proof that we’re steering people away from DLC it would just be unmanageable. There are people who can’t afford to buy a new console and those would not be affected. Everybody else would. Weekly releases are direct competition, sporadic releases are another thing.
Colonel, I have been probably the one trying the hardest to find a way to make it work anyway and I initially asked to take a few months to think this over. However, after a couple of days of thinking about it I kept going back to one nightmare scenario: a user who owns both RB4 and RB3 who posts “Wooo! Journey 6-pack, amazing! Not like the crap HMX is releasing this Friday. And this stuff is free, it’s a no brainer what I download this week!”That does it for us, as simple as that. It’s bad enough that our poll has people posting that they prefer us to HMX (you may have noticed I have specifically NOT added an option that lets user say they would stick with customs anyway), but if we had written proof that we’re steering people away from DLC it would just be unmanageable. There are people who can’t afford to buy a new console and those would not be affected. Everybody else would. Weekly releases are direct competition, sporadic releases are another thing.
That nightmare scenario would probably happen a lot, you are right. To me, though, that would indicate HMX isn’t living up to its own standards and “you reap what you sow”. They made a great game that we all love, and we all continue to support it where they have chosen not to. They do have the option to release each RB4 DLC song as an RB3 DLC song – in fact, they can release anything they can license for either iteration of the game, but they have chosen RB4 exclusively, which is fine. But then, how can C3 be crucified for simply continuing to support a game they do not? I understand “principles” and all that noise, but the reality is that for two years C3 has done more to continue support for the franchise than HMX has. I know, “They made the game we all love!”, and I showed my support by spending thousands on it only to have them change the rules by “forcing” a system upgrade if I want to continue the franchise. They’re leaving 360, PS3 and Wii users behind and I should follow like a puppy because I like Rock Band? Competition is rarely a bad thing for innovation and improving quality. I say, keep pumping out C3 customs and if they can’t keep up, they’re not doing their jobs properly. If they ask you to cease and desist, that’s different, but until such time, I don’t see it as unfair competition. That nightmare scenario you proposed would be far less likely if they produce quality tracks that people actually want. And if they produced them for RB3, I’d continue buying. Their decision, their loss.
My opinion of it is, I understand the reasoning for this as it mirrors what I’ve always thought of customs. As great as it is to have UGC creators doing their thing, whenever possible, the official releases should always be supported first and foremost. It’s the reason why I never even touched customs until RBN stopped completely.
Here’s my thoughts on the matter though. Despite the mainstream songs I worked on/am working on here, I’m seeing C3 as a place where I can release songs that don’t have a chance of making it on Rock Band in any conceivable way. For example, a Journey six-pack, while unlikely to be an RB release anytime soon, is still in the realm of possibility for the series. The Parental Advisory and LittleKuriboh packs I’m working on, on the other hand, don’t have a chance in hell of ever being RB official releases for obvious reasons, even if RBN became a thing again. C3 is pretty much the only organized-release place where these customs can be distributed. If RBN ever came back, I planned on taking as many of my songs as I legally could off here to gun for official release once again, but the PC/LK/etc songs would always be here, and I’d still be making and releasing similar songs here on the side. C3 fills that niche for me of being a source of songs I normally wouldn’t see on Rock Band, and even taking away the mainstream stuff I feel it would still serve that purpose.
Because of that, as long as C3 provides a platform for releasing these kinds of songs, I will continue to author and release customs while I enjoy RB4 and everything it has to offer. I feel like C3 would still have a place in the Rock Band community long after RB4 and its DLC launches, at least as long as Harmonix doesn’t see fit to pull the plug on us.
This feels like the right decision, and it’s really well put. I’ve known a bunch of the current and former developers at Harmonix for almost 20 years now, so I’m really only interested in doing things that help them be successful, and it’s great to see that sentiment shared by everyone here too. As I see it, keeping the RB flame alive though C3 was an important part of that.
Moving forward, it seems to me that the best way to help make RB4 a success is to ensure that all of the fans of C3 — who are almost surely the most enthusiastic potential purchasers of RB4 and its DLC — can transition smoothly over to that title, which likely means getting their customs library working on RB4 (and, of course, removing any songs that show up as part of official RB4 DLC). I’m super enthusiastic about RB4, but without the library of customs that I’ve accumulated (and authored), it’s definitely a harder sell.
Obviously who knows if that’ s even going to be possible, but here’s hoping.
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