[Captainoffun22]

Hello

Is it illegal to download customs on this website?

if so then I won’t download a custom

unless the person gave permission to have the song on the website

as there are so many songs I would like to make but they are copyrighted

but if it is illegal then is there anyway to release customs without the audio?

[corporalgregg]

See that stuff behind your post? It’s a grey area.

[Nyxyxylyth]

is there anyway to release customs without the audio?

RB3Maker can do that, but it’s been a long time since anyone bothered. If you’re worried about it, find a different hobby.

[Captainoffun22]

I guess you are right

[Colonel 32dll]

I’m no lawyer, but since customs are actually game files and not playable audio files that we’re all sharing and swapping around, we might fall into that grey area CorporalGregg spoke of. Yes, we’re using copywritten material but quite possibly within “fair use” terms since no one can just download a custom and listen to the song on their iPod – plus no one here is profiting from its use. If I thought I could get into legal hot water over this, I wouldn’t share my customs – and no one else here would either. This site has been in public operation for well over a year (and other sites for much longer) and, as far as I know, there’s been not an inkling of trouble.

 

I hope the admins will correct any errors I may have spewed forth. ” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />

[Nightmare Lyra]

The stuff in the C3 database has encrypted audio as well, making it completely impossible to get the audio file out of it, so that should probably help too.

[mcatrn]

I am a lawyer, and one who happens to do quite a bit of IP work. While I can’t offer legal advice to C3,* I can give my personal opinion. Just like any other infringement issue, there are a ton of competing considerations. A quick and dirty fair use analysis isn’t sufficient because several of the factors (particularly purpose of the use/effect on the market) could be argued either way. However those factors would settle out, there is always a difference between academic legal analysis and how things play out practically. In the real world, the question is whether the copyright holders (typically the publishers/record labels) really think customs represent a enough of a lost opportunity to make money to start sending demand letters and/or pursue legal action. Right now, without a current gen game/licensing program, labels obviously aren’t losing money from customs, and I would even argue that customs are beneficial to the labels in the sense that they get music and artists out there that folks otherwise might not know…and, as Colonel and Lyra point out, they are getting out in a manner that’s not taking the place of moneymaking enterprises such as, say, Internet radio, song/album purchases, ad engagements from YouTube views, etc.

 

Bottom line: rock on guilt-free.

 

 

 

 

*That I felt compelled to add this statement should prove that I’m a lawyer.

[mcatrn]

And, by the way, it should NEVER be a problem–legally or practically–to make a custom for your personal use, presuming you didn’t illegally download the song in the first place.

[TrojanNemo]

I am a lawyer, and one who happens to do quite a bit of IP work. While I can’t offer legal advice to C3,* I can give my personal opinion. Just like any other infringement issue, there are a ton of competing considerations. A quick and dirty fair use analysis isn’t sufficient because several of the factors (particularly purpose of the use/effect on the market) could be argued either way. However those factors would settle out, there is always a difference between academic legal analysis and how things play out practically. In the real world, the question is whether the copyright holders (typically the publishers/record labels) really think customs represent a enough of a lost opportunity to make money to start sending demand letters and/or pursue legal action. Right now, without a current gen game/licensing program, labels obviously aren’t losing money from customs, and I would even argue that customs are beneficial to the labels in the sense that they get music and artists out there that folks otherwise might not know…and, as Colonel and Lyra point out, they are getting out in a manner that’s not taking the place of moneymaking enterprises such as, say, Internet radio, song/album purchases, ad engagements from YouTube views, etc.

 

Bottom line: rock on guilt-free.

 

 

 

 

*That I felt compelled to add this statement should prove that I’m a lawyer.

Been saying this since we started. But my involvement with IP has only really been one class and telling one client to pay Getty their demand because it would be less than our fees to litigate it!

[beastman]

Bottom line: rock on guilt-free.

 

I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t get that conclusion from your post. Here’s what I get from your post:

 

Since there is not a demonstrable loss of revenue at this time, the IP holders probably will not bother us for now.

 

 

We are in fact distributing copyrighted material without the consent of the license holders. That is the bottom line. The fact that no one is selling that material or making money on customs has no bearing on that. We should stop using the “we’re not making money here” argument to rationalize the copyright infringement going on. The no money aspect simply means we probably won’t spur the rights holders to action against us.

 

We shouldn’t delude ourselves about what’s going on. And yes, I am here taking part so please don’t ascribe any intents to me other than trying to be realistic.

[Nightmare Lyra]

Seems we have very different outlooks on it.

[mcatrn]

We are in fact distributing copyrighted material without the consent of the license holders. That is the bottom line. The fact that no one is selling that material or making money on customs has no bearing on that. We should stop using the “we’re not making money here” argument to rationalize the copyright infringement going on. The no money aspect simply means we probably won’t spur the rights holders to action against us.

 

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not sure I agree with the final three sentences here. Distribution of copyrighted material without consent <> infringement. I do think there’s a legitimate fair use argument to be made for customs (they are transformative works, the underlying audio file cannot be readily extracted and played on other media, there’s no actual or realistic market for customs, C3 has gone about things the right way by ensuring that no licensed material is available for download), and the fact that money is not being made is absolutely relevant to that argument (though admittedly not determinative, since the question isn’t necessarily about lost revenue but lost POTENTIAL revenue).

 

My “guilt free” statement was from this standpoint: customs obviously aren’t taking money out of anybody’s pockets. There are no new licensed songs being made available by Harmonix, no platform for record labels to sell them licensed songs from anyway, and the plastic instrument genre has been all but declared dead by those outside of this (incredibly awesome) community. People are free to feel as guilty as they want to, but just understand that to do so in this case you have to believe: (1) customs absolutely aren’t fair use, and (2) somebody somewhere is entitled to damages from customs.

[beastman]

I do think there’s a legitimate fair use argument to be made for customs (they are transformative works, the underlying audio file cannot be readily extracted and played on other media, there’s no actual or realistic market for customs, C3 has gone about things the right way by ensuring that no licensed material is available for download)

 

I like that line of thinking. Thanks for putting the pieces together in one sentence.

[Farottone]

It’s all stuff that’s been well debated before we went public, because we all have a good grasp of legality and consequences. We’re not very comfortable with public acknowledgement of wrong doing though, so let’s keep it to a minimum. ” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif”>

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, it is debateable. However, I highly believe it isn’t causing problems for anyone at all and isn’t something that people will debate on it at all nor will attempt to get you fined/jailed for it…

 

So simply put. Keep playing with customs or without it. It doesn’t matter.

[Author]

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