[Dahnlee]

Okay, it’s been about a month since I stumbled onto the C3 community and I am slowly transitioning from just sucking in content to editing and even authoring a couple of things. I’ve spent quite a bit of time diving into these forum pages and assembling the right combination of Reaper with CAT, Magma, and the C3 CON Tools. I’ve kind of worked through a lot of the manipulation process, but it occurs to me that, even after reviewing the tutorial documentation and videos, I might be going around my ass to get to my elbow in some cases and I’m hoping you guys can either confirm that I’m doing things the right way or point me to a better method.

 

Case in point, what is the best way to edit a CON file? To give a specific example, I wanted to edit “Another Brick in the Wall†so that it jumps straight to the helicopter about halfway through the song. So I started by extracting the CON contents using the C3 Tools CON Explorer and then pulled both the MOGG and MIDI files into Reaper. I select ALL tracks and use the split command to delete the first half of the song and slide the remaining parts to the 1.1 start position (with the long stretch of helicopter audio, the instruments don’t start until well after 3.1). I used the fade in command in reaper to tweak the beginning of the audio tracks – and then I’m not sure what to do next. I would like to export all the MIDI tracks as an updated mid file and all the MOGG tracks as an updated mogg file, give them the same name as the original files, and just substitute them for the original files in a recompiled CON file. There are several issue with this approach. First, Reaper will import MOGG, but will only output OGG. I also noticed that when I imported the MIDI file from the CON, Reaper does not display the Tempo Map, so I’m not sure if I’ve lost that in the process.

 

An alternate approach would be to generate the MIDI and the 2 WAV files (song and mute) and recompile everything through Magma, but then I believe I will lose the Dry Vox track which is somehow rolled up in the MOGG file.

 

Of course, I can always go back to the original author and ask for the actual Reaper files, but I would actually like to know how and if this back-end editing approach would work anyway. For instance, it seems like just editing the CON MIDI file would be handy to add CAT EMH to an Expert only song.

 

Finally, is there a way to force Reaper to open the CON MIDI file (or any other MIDI file for that matter) in the C3 Custom RB3 Template? In other words, where the FX button opens the VSTi: RBN Preview and the MIDI window opens with the EMH and Expert row headers?

 

Any help you guys can give to get me over this initial learning curve would be GREATLY appreciated! I love this game and this custom capability is like a dream come true. Now that I’ve found this new sandbox, I plan to just keep digging deeper and deeper…

[Nyxyxylyth]

To give a specific example, I wanted to edit “Another Brick in the Wall” so that it jumps straight to the helicopter about halfway through the song. So I started by extracting the CON contents using the C3 Tools CON Explorer and then pulled both the MOGG and MIDI files into Reaper. I select ALL tracks and use the split command to delete the first half of the song and slide the remaining parts to the 1.1 start position (with the long stretch of helicopter audio, the instruments don’t start until well after 3.1).

You picked a hell of a starting exercise. The reason that’s not going to work is because you slid the notes, but you didn’t move the tempo map. For most songs, that’s going to end up with a horrible chart.

 

The way to do it (and this is kind of an advanced topic) is to highlight the part you’re going to remove, then use the REAPER action:

Time selection: Remove contents of time selection (moving later items)

 

I would like to export all the MIDI tracks as an updated mid file and all the MOGG tracks as an updated mogg file, give them the same name as the original files, and just substitute them for the original files in a recompiled CON file. There are several issue with this approach. First, Reaper will import MOGG, but will only output OGG.

RB3-compatible MOGG tracks are only created by Magma.

 

An alternate approach would be to generate the MIDI and the 2 WAV files (song and mute) and recompile everything through Magma, but then I believe I will lose the Dry Vox track which is somehow rolled up in the MOGG file.

You’ll have to use Magma, because you’re changing the song audio. Since you don’t have the original dryvox track, there’s no way to edit that down either – you’ll have to make a new one.

[Farottone]

I’m glad Nyx chimed in because I was gonna say the same things. I’m just gonna add one thing: CON editing and project editing are entirely different matters. You can edit a CON file by changing the song’s info, repackaging it, etc. and those are fairly easy modifications. Once you want to edit notes, then you go into authoring territory and the CON file is just a container from which you get all your stuff: once you got that out, the following process is authoring and involves creating a new project, so you need to know your Reaper and your Magma.

[Dahnlee]

Thanks for the quick response, guys!!!

 

You can edit a CON file by changing the song’s info, repackaging it, etc. and those are fairly easy modifications. Once you want to edit notes, then you go into authoring territory

 

So in this particular instance, I will be much better served to ask for the RPP files from the author. Then, I could use the “Time selection: Remove contents of time selection command” suggested by Nyxyxylyth and this becomes a much simpler exercise. Correct?

 

On the other hand, if I want to change a charted note from a cymbal to a tom or if I wanted to do a CAT Reduction, I could just edit the MIDI from the CON and then replace that file and recompile. Okay, I think I’ve got that distinction.

 

What about getting Reaper to open a MIDI file in the C3 template? Is it possible to pull a drum track from a music MIDI, load it into a RB3 drum track, and have the gems show up in the MIDI window in the RB3 configuration with all the correct row headings (i.e., EMHE, solo, overdrive, toms, etc.). Obviously, there would be no solo or overdrive information, but the MIDI number system should translate to RGBY toms and cymbals (I would expect the info to load into the Expert rows by default). Am I missing something or does it just not work that way?

[Farottone]

So in this particular instance, I will be much better served to ask for the RPP files from the author. Then, I could use the “Time selection: Remove contents of time selection command” suggested by Nyxyxylyth and this becomes a much simpler exercise. Correct?

 

You don’t need it, you can import the MIDI and the audio in Reaper. Obviously a Reaper project + assets is quicker to assemble.

 

What about getting Reaper to open a MIDI file in the C3 template? Is it possible to pull a drum track from a music MIDI, load it into a RB3 drum track, and have the gems show up in the MIDI window in the RB3 configuration with all the correct row headings (i.e., EMHE, solo, overdrive, toms, etc.). Obviously, there would be no solo or overdrive information, but the MIDI number system should translate to RGBY toms and cymbals (I would expect the info to load into the Expert rows by default). Am I missing something or does it just not work that way?

 

The MIDI tracks from the template are normal MIDI tracks with some plug ins and some presets applied. You can’t import into but you can import a MIDI, open each MIDI track and copypaste into the template’s tracks.

[Dahnlee]

Which ties back to your foolproof copypaste method from the tutorial…

 

I’ll play around with this a bit and then maybe pester you with some more questions in a day or two

 

Thanks Again! I really do appreciate the help.

[TrojanNemo]

I think you’ve gotten the big points addressed by the admins, but I wanted to clarify a few things:

 

I will lose the Dry Vox track which is somehow rolled up in the MOGG file.

 

The dryvox/lip sync is actually stored in the .milo_xbox file. If you’re just recompiling a song for whatever reason but not actually editing the audio length and placement, you can use a blank dryvox in Magma, put the original .milo_xbox file on the project folder, and enable the override milo file advanced option in Magma: C3. It’ll create a dummy blank one during compilation (required) but then replace it with the original one when creating the CON file. In this situation, this is useless to you since you are altering the audio (so you’d have the wrong lipsync if you did this), but wanted to make sure you understood the difference.

 

On the other hand, if I want to change a charted note from a cymbal to a tom or if I wanted to do a CAT Reduction, I could just edit the MIDI from the CON

 

Yes. That’s how C16 has fixed up a bunch of songs using CAT. You just export that fixed MIDI and replace into the CON. Same can be done for any other part of it (metadata in songs.dta file, album art in .png_xbox file), although as you now know, .milo_xbox and .mogg can only be generated using Magma.

 

and then replace that file and recompile.

 

Compiling is more like what Magma does. C3 CON Tools is just replacing or adding files to a CON file, then saving the changes. Not compiling/recompiling.

 

 

I commend you on the project you took to start. As Nyx said, it’s one hell of a first project. But you definitely need to have a good grounding in authoring and using REAPER. It will answer a lot of the questions you’ve asked on here. Watch pksage’s sexy tutorial video for that.

[Dahnlee]

Thanks Nemo for the additional details and the encouragement!

 

I’m still working on “Another Brick in the Wall†in Reaper – I decided to just record a new Dry Vox track myself (I think I can croak my way through).

 

I also spent some time altering the MIDIs of a few of my favorite songs in order to clean up some minor nits that had been bothering me. One issue that was particularly vexing involved adding hi-hat hits to the chorus of “Twilight Zone†on hard. I’m very grateful for the work that C16 did to reduce that song, but the Expert chorus used a Disco Flip and that seems to have messed with the CAT EMH process so that there were no hi-hat hits at all during those sections. It was weird, just adding the yellow gems didn’t fix the problem because the added notes would only show up in-game when they didn’t coincide with either a snare or base hit. I essentially had to rebuild those sections note by note, but it works now!

 

Now I have yet another clean up task that involves a question specifically for you. I am actually working on the PS3 as my gaming platform, so any custom work I do has the final step of being run through your converter. One of the things that has been driving me crazy for years, is how Pro Drums were not correctly charted in some of the early RBN songs. I know this issue is being worked as part of the Harmony Project, but that solution is XBox only (at least for now). I would like to fix the Third Eye Blind and Creed songs on the PS3. It occurs to me that I could fix these problems myself if I could only open the .mid.dat files in Reaper the same as the CON .mid files. Is there any way to reverse the PS3 conversion process or somehow otherwise get the .mid.dat file into Reaper?

[TrojanNemo]

Yes there is but I don’t have the details for that. You can probably use the same tools already included with C3 CON Tools (edattool and rebuilder in the /bin folder) but I don’t own a ps3 so can’t be too helpful there. Try asking in the ps3 customs thread.

[Dahnlee]

I’ll pull this particular subject of decrypting MIDI DAT files back into the PS3 thread, but your tip about Rebuilder got me as far as I will probably get. Unfortunately, decrypting the MIDI for official DLC requires the KLIC license key you were telling me about in that thread. I understand now. Each song directory has it’s own distinct key and without that key, it’s impossible to manipulate the encrypted contents or add new content.

[Dahnlee]

Okay, jumping back to my original task of trimming down “Another Brick in the Wall”…

 

Thanks to Nyxyxylyth’s pointer about the “Time selection: Remove contents of time selection (moving later items)” command in Reaper, I have been able to successfully shorten the song. For anyone else who might attempt this exercise in the future, I strongly recommend saving the key Event Markers from the beginning of the song (especially the Drum Markers) beforehand.

 

I’m all but finished with the song and I’m now trying to correct a minor bug that was actually present in the original version. There are two vocal phrases where the lyrics at the very end don’t show up in the game. The lyrics are correctly set up with one syllable per tube/marker and the markers are set to lyrics. It appears to be a similar issue to this thread: Board index ‹ Authoring Auditorium ‹ Authoring Tools, Support, & Advice ‹ Select lyrics not showing up in game. I tried the suggestion about changing the scrolling speed in Magma, but it didn’t have any effect.

 

The lyrics in question are at the end of the third phrase (“the kids”) and the fourth phrase (“inches of their lives”).

Reaper file: http://www.mediafire.com/view/83u80iue7 … Brick3.RPP

CON file: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0b6qb … n_the_Wall

 

Thoughts?

[Farottone]

I’m all but finished with the song and I’m now trying to correct a minor bug that was actually present in the original version. There are two vocal phrases where the lyrics at the very end don’t show up in the game.

 

Those phrases are too long, so the last lyrics won’t show up. Shorten them (actually, halve them and they make more sense to play too) and you’re good to go. ” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif”>

[Dahnlee]

Thank you for the VERY quick response!

 

I suspect this should be an easy fix, but when I split those Phrase Markers in two I get the following error:

 

MIDI validation failed: (noteOn Time == NOTE_OFF)

 

Is there a requirement for minimum space between phrases? Or am I missing something else?

 

And while I have your attention can I pester you with one more question?

 

Is there a marker or command that sets the starting point of the preview music for the in-game menu/index?

 

THANKS!!!

[TrojanNemo]

The last one is preview start time in Magma or in the songs.dta file (in milliseconds).

[Farottone]

Thank you for the VERY quick response!

 

I suspect this should be an easy fix, but when I split those Phrase Markers in two I get the following error:

 

MIDI validation failed: (noteOn Time == NOTE_OFF)

 

Post the whole text please.

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