Do you care if songs are done with CAT?
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Do you guys care if a song is done with CAT?
Not sure if i should try add real ones or use CAT or just edit stuff i think don’t look right, what do you guys think?
Yeah, I consider it a lower quality custom when I see it was done with CAT and tend to avoid downloading it. This opinion is only because of the auto reduction feature. Aside from that I think CAT has some handy features.
If you are going to use CAT at least go through all of the reductions and fix any questionable choices that CAT made.
Yeah, I consider it a lower quality custom when I see it was done with CAT and tend to avoid downloading it. This opinion is only because of the auto reduction feature. Aside from that I think CAT has some handy features.
If you are going to use CAT at least go through all of the reductions and fix any questionable choices that CAT made.
So if i use cat and fix the mistakes do i still have to label it as using auto generation?
Also what kind of stuff do CAT do that is not right?
So if i use cat and fix the mistakes do i still have to label it as using auto generation?
Also what kind of stuff do CAT do that is not right?
That CAT button on the Visualizer is probably the worst idea we ever had. It made the set of tools look like something bad.
Autoreduction are based on generic assumptions: delete every note not on the grid selected, account for sparse note (keep note that are not on the grid selected if no notes are near those ones), keep consecutive notes on low BPMs, reduce chords based on pattern, etc. Those assumptions are just it, assumption. Once you run autoreductions you still need to go over the song measure by measure to see what happened. For very rhythmic songs, actually you will touch very little probably, maybe reworking Hard a bit because for simple songs it tends to be very similar to Expert. For every other cases you will need to change the chart according to the rhythm, to where the accents are, to re-incorporate long notes that are not originally on grid, etc.
However, I’m majorly gonna push back against this:
If you are going to use CAT at least go through all of the reductions and fix any questionable choices that CAT made.
It’s not an “at least” proposition, it’s the only thing you need to do to make your work easier and good. If you use CAT, excluding very rare cases, you’re cutting down authoring times by a lot, you just need to go over the reductions to fix what needs fixing. Using CAT is not bad, it’s good, you save time and in many cases you also comply to official rules (I have lost count of the times I’ve seen improper sustain lengths in charts from people who are too good to use the Fix sustains automatic command or issues in capitalisation), but you need to recheck everything because automation has of course limits.
It’s not an “at least” proposition, it’s the only thing you need to do to make your work easier and good. If you use CAT, excluding very rare cases, you’re cutting down authoring times by a lot, you just need to go over the reductions to fix what needs fixing. Using CAT is not bad, it’s good, you save time and in many cases you also comply to official rules (I have lost count of the times I’ve seen improper sustain lengths in charts from people who are too good to use the Fix sustains automatic command or issues in capitalisation), but you need to recheck everything because automation has of course limits.
This. Using CAT allows you to gain a lot of time doing reductions, but as far as I’m concerned that’s only a step on the road to quality customs.
Do you guys care if a song is done with CAT?
Not sure if i should try add real ones or use CAT or just edit stuff i think don’t look right, what do you guys think?
From what I can tell in my limited experience, authoring is most definitely an “art”, not a “science”. Auto reductions (in and of themselves) are a “science”, since they’re following a specific set of algorithms.
That said…auto reductions are infinitely better than “Expert Only”, especially since C3 made it soooooooo easy to use CAT. CAT (and all of the C3 tools, really) is an amazing thing. But if you really care about quality…actual authoring of the lower difficulty levels is the way to go. CAT reductions will give you a great framework to build on, though.
Like everybody else said (much better than I could)…garbage in, garbage out. If the expert midi chart isn’t great to start with, CAT can’t really do anything about that!
For the record, the CAT icon was added to Visualizer because people were already doing CAT only reductions and users had no way of telling what kind of reductions a song had…it wasn’t added to encourage the misuse of CAT or to suggest people ought to do CAT only reductions.
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Also what kind of stuff do CAT do that is not right?
You tell me if this is playable for Easy players
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Auto reductions also can’t tell what off-beat notes are more prominent to play.
This pattern for example:
Ideally you would want medium players to play the chords so a proper way to reduce is to do this:
However, this is what auto reductions would do:
This can cause players to feel unsynced to the melody of a song and simply not fun to play.
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I know some songs will fair better with it, and I agree that you do save a lot more time if you run auto reductions then fix the problems from there. The problem is that more than half the user submitted customs here in the database don’t even bother to at all.
That’s why you don’t just CAT and upload. You have to go over and edit anything that doesn’t look right. It’s not a click-once-and-done kind of program.
Honestly I don’t really care whether it’s CAT-reduced or not as I almost never play anything other than expert, but it’s still good practice to look over CAT reductions when you do them.
you know, your poll doesn’t make a lot of sense, because you could pick any of those options based on any number of conflicting viewpoints.
i care if songs are done with CAT because it prevents the database from filling up with expert-only customs – not because CAT reductions are “lower quality”. whether someone chooses to gloss over the rough spots CAT leaves is up to them. i’m lazy by nature, and while i do give CAT reductions a quick once-over, i don’t judge if others decide not to. however, i seriously doubt very many people around here do reductions entirely by hand.
I don’t care if a song is done with CAT because I only play expert anyway so it doesn’t effect me at all
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however, i seriously doubt very many people around here do reductions entirely by hand.
Ahem…yeah…that would just be silly wouldn’t it…
Though I have a feeling once I start authoring more I’ll end up using CAT instead of doing reductions myself, but I digress.
I do end up not downloading a song that is “expert only” which is kinda silly now that I think about it since I don’t actually play on any other difficulty, but at the same time I like “complete” songs in my RB3 game. I don’t know why, I just like completion – as close to “official” as it gets. If that makes sense. If a song is missing an instrument, lacks player animations, no harmonies, and/or has no pitched vocals, I won’t download it for that reason.
As far as CAT goes, it does keep at least a basic idea of the entire song’s chart in a lesser degree for lower difficulties, so my sense of completion is…well…complete. So I stick by saying “no, I don’t mind if songs are done with CAT”…as long as there’s something resembling the song there.
Ahem…yeah…that would just be silly wouldn’t it…
well hey, props to you! that’s a level of dedication that i can’t match. i just meant that you’re (i would assume) one of a minority among custom authors.
I do end up not downloading a song that is “expert only” which is kinda silly now that I think about it since I don’t actually play on any other difficulty, but at the same time I like “complete” songs in my RB3 game. I don’t know why, I just like completion – as close to “official” as it gets. If that makes sense. If a song is missing an instrument, lacks player animations, no harmonies, and/or has no pitched vocals, I won’t download it for that reason.
I understand where you are coming from with this, personally, I limit myself to “Gameplay Complete” customs, every instrument (outside of keys) charted with pro drums, all difficulties etc, I run my RB3 for parties, and its nice to not have someone disappointed because they can’t play the song they want for whatever reason (no emh/vocals)
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