Percussion Sections for Harmonies

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  • #394243
    pipiris24
    Participant

      Hello.

       

      I want to know what do you think about percussion sections in harmonies, since magma allow that, it will be great if those percussion notes appear en the harmony part as well in solo vocal.

       

      I think the only problem is when the singers are playing a instrument at the same time, but in most of cases singers only sing.

       

      I know percussion notes are not allowed for harmonies due the rock band standards, so I want to know what do you think, because I want to implement this on my customs.

      #473654
      mb1nightmare
      Participant

        singers are playing a instrument at the same time

         

        So… someone who does that (me, and a lot of other players), wouldn’t be allowed, by you, to play your custom?

        #473656
        Farottone
        Keymaster

          Percussions can be activated without using the hands, so that’s not an issue.

          #473657
          mb1nightmare
          Participant

            I Learn something new everyday… Forget what I said pipiris!

            #473662

            I messaged you about this a while ago farottone, also, there are conflicting statements in the RBN Docs;

            in the vocal charting section it says percussion sections should be inside a section of several phrase markers about two measures in length, the harmony charting section states all percussion notes in a given section should be under one long phrase marker.

             

            I guess it doesn’t make a huge difference, but it’d be nice to have the whole thing cleared up I guess <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif” />

            #473665
            Farottone
            Keymaster

              They’re not conflicting. Only PART VOCALS should have notes (but pipiris24 acknowledged that anyway) and percussion notes needs to be covered by average sized phrase markers. If you have percussion notes on PART VOCALS and you’re authoring harmonies, draw a long phrase marker to cover the notes you have in PART VOCALS. With that said, I’m not sure if this is still used in game (I never play with static lyrics, which is where most of the edge cases with phrases are).

              #473666

              I figured it would be to do with static vocals.

               

               

              It looks to me like the vocal Authoring doc was written in the time of RB2, and that the harmony authoring information was added later and the standard was changed, but maybe I’m inferring incorrectly ¯_(ツ)_/¯

              #473668
              Farottone
              Keymaster

                It looks to me like the vocal Authoring doc was written in the time of RB2

                 

                Of course it was, RBN was born for RB2.

                #473673
                Gigakoops
                Participant

                  I, personally, wouldn’t like to see percussion sections in harmonies. I myself dislike the majority of those when the song itself doesn’t have clapping, tambourine, or cowbell in the audio, as it just feels like unnecessary busywork. So I tend to play harmonies to avoid it. Though to see it in harmonies, too, would be kind of upsetting to me.

                   

                  Again, that’s all personal preference. Everyone else’s opinions could very well be different.

                  #473674

                  Yeh but the Harmony authoring doc was added for rockband 3 (“…tambourines return from RB2”), and the following amendment was then made:

                   

                  “Entire Tambourine sections should be placed under a single phrase marker”

                  #473677
                  pipiris24
                  Participant

                    They’re not conflicting. Only PART VOCALS should have notes (but pipiris24 acknowledged that anyway) and percussion notes needs to be covered by average sized phrase markers. If you have percussion notes on PART VOCALS and you’re authoring harmonies, draw a long phrase marker to cover the notes you have in PART VOCALS. With that said, I’m not sure if this is still used in game (I never play with static lyrics, which is where most of the edge cases with phrases are).

                     

                    In the static HUD, only the lyrics are static, notes keep in movement. As you said, percussion notes only need one phrase marker, it would look as the solo vocal part, nothing changes. I realized that when I was helping a friend to clean his midi for magma, and when done I test the song in the game and I realized he author the percussion notes for harmonies too, and it was ok for magma.

                    #473680
                    Farottone
                    Keymaster

                      Yeh but the Harmony authoring doc was added for rockband 3 (“…tambourines return from RB2”), and the following amendment was then made:

                       

                      “Entire Tambourine sections should be placed under a single phrase marker”

                       

                      Yes, for the harmony part, as I said, not for PART VOCALS. Not sure what is to infer here: RBN docs were done for RB2, then RB3 introduced harmonies and for harmonies wrap all tambourine notes you author for PART VOCALS under a single phrase marker. It’s the same as wrapping all H2 and H3 notes under H1 markers: even when you don’t lay those notes on H1 you still lay down the markers.

                      #473682

                       

                      Yes, for the harmony part, as I said, not for PART VOCALS…

                      It says right above that “Only in PART VOCALS”

                      “…small changes:

                      • Tambourine sections are only used in the PART VOCALS track. You should not put tambourine sections in any of the other vocal tracks.
                      • Entire Tambourine sections should be placed under a single phrase marker.”

                      To me this means “always place all percussion notes inside one whole phrase marker, and only place percussion sections in the PART VOCALS track”

                       

                      Which is the opposite of what it says in vocal Authoring.

                       

                      Does it mean that, in songs with harmonies, PART VOCALS percussion sections should be in large, single phrases,

                       

                      And in songs with just one Vocal Part, percussion sections should be divided into small two measure phrases?

                       

                      If so, that makes literally no fucking sense, because both rules pertain to PART VOCALS, and AFAIK, there is no difference in playing solo vocals whether the song has harmonies or not.

                       

                      So, my conclusion was, that since harmonies are RB3-era, HMX appended the rule to the harmony docs, instead of amending the original RBN documentation. Since static vocals in both games is quite different, and this rule pertains to static vocals, this makes sense to me (the rule changed because the game changed).

                       

                      Anyway, my opinion on percussion during harmonies is that I like the idea, and think they should be included. Like you said earlier farottone, they can still be played with the mouth.

                       

                      Also, I don’t take rockband too seriously (he says after typing an essay on harmony phrases), the priority is fun for me, which means any way people can get more involved in a song is fine by me :haw:â

                       

                      EDIT: After reading/re-reading the RBN Docs and your post fara, I see that you mean the phrase markers in the harmony parts should encompass the percussion notes in PART VOCALS. But, that seems pointless? Since the game reads PART VOCALS and HARM1, 2&3 tracks completely separately, dependent on what the player chooses (solo or harmony) doesn’t it? Also, the fact it says “changes” is what led me to believe it was an amendment to the rules. In any case, it’s worded like shite and about as clear as mud :haw:â

                      #473702
                      Farottone
                      Keymaster

                        EDIT: After reading/re-reading the RBN Docs and your post fara, I see that you mean the phrase markers in the harmony parts should encompass the percussion notes in PART VOCALS. But, that seems pointless? Since the game reads PART VOCALS and HARM1, 2&3 tracks completely separately, dependent on what the player chooses (solo or harmony) doesn’t it?

                         

                         

                        I’m glad you finally wrapped your head around my explanation. Also, no, PART VOCALS is used for a number of things for harmonies too, including animations and overdrive.

                        #473703

                        Hahaa, me too. I can’t believe I’m the only person who’s been confused by that <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_frown.gif” />

                         

                        Oh Yeh I forgot it’s used for Overdrive and animations.

                         

                        /end thread hijack

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