Tempo Mapping odd-time signature
- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Hopefully this isn’t a duplicate question (I did a few searches and couldn’t find anything), but I’m trying to tempo map a song in Reaper that I know is in 12/8 time the whole way through, and…
1) Does it really affect anything if I set the time signature marker to “6/4”? The only reason is that I think the in-game track looks less cluttered that way, as far as the lines on the “fretboard” (I have no idea what the official term is). And the reason I even mention “12/8” is that the song is officially listed in their songbook as being that time signature, even though the beat is pretty much quarter notes; so it’s not like it’ll be harder to chart if it’s 6/4.
2) Is it possible to use the “Q” shortcut when tempo mapping? It keeps setting it back to 4/4 when I try. The “T” seems to do the same thing (although it’s probably not what I need anyways). I’ve tried changing the project’s time signature, I’ve tried editing the “Q” action itself. Do I have to manually figure the tempo for each measure? Please tell me it isn’t so.
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_frown.gif” />Hi clumsy! Hopefully I can provide some insight that isn’t terribly off…
1.) Charting in 6/4 is technically ok. Any reduction of the fraction technically can be. However, the true measure is what is listed. It will likely be more difficult to chart in a reduced measure. For instance, there was a polyrhythm in a Tool song I charted in 12/8 and I don’t think I could have done it in 6/4. This was due to the fact it would have been difficult to improvise the end of the reduced measure as it would have technically ended on nothing. Though I see that you mentioned that it shouldn’t affect you.
2.) It is possible to use “Q” while tempo mapping. However, you do have to manually set a tempo for the measure after the time signature change, but only for that measure. “Q” will work on any after. Otherwise you are correct, it will reset back to 4/4 and you’ll end up with some crazy bpm. It’s not bad at all though, having to manually set one here and there!
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_biggrin.gif” />I feel I should chime in with a bit of theory. If the song is really in 12/8, then it would make more sense to chart it as 4/4, with three 8th notes to a beat. The reason for 3/8, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc. time signatures is that its the simplest way to get beats into groups of 3 divisions.
My first suggestion would actually be to chart it in 12/8, then, in the beat track, but the markers in 1, 4, 7, and 10 in each measure. Otherwise, make it 4/4.
I feel I should chime in with a bit of theory. If the song is really in 12/8, then it would make more sense to chart it as 4/4, with three 8th notes to a beat.That is one solid piece of advice.
Similar to something like this? This is from Rush – Clockwork Angels. While this was meant to be played like this for other musical reasons, you’ll see the same things applied. This is triplets played in 4/4, which is basically the same effect as 12/8.
Musically, 12/8 makes sense, but in terms of this game, it may be visually more appealing to have it in a more reduced form, or fudged such as this. 12/8 makes the play board look cluttered and weird in my opinion. Just remember to drop the beat markers as explained by them correctly depending on which you choose.
12/8 makes the play board look cluttered and weird in my opinion. Just remember to drop the beat markers as explained by them correctly depending on which you choose.It’s not a matter of TS but of what you’re supposed to play. If the notes fall on grid lines, regardless of TS, it’s cleaner.
I agree mostly with that. Few instances where I’d rather have the true signature than always 4/4 if you can get away with it. To my knowledge, besides the visual board aspect, the time signature only really affects Overdrive deployment correct (ie, overdrive uses measures as a reference to it’s duration)?
Personally, when I was charting out Rush’s Caravan [Album version], I saw this issue come up. I took a peak at the official release, and saw that they mainly kept it in 4/4 (using 3/4 to fix any problem areas and get back on track).
[Mainly in reference to the chorus section]:
After some research, I found some articles of neil peart interviews where he talked about the album and the musical choices and such in the Clockwork Angels album. He was discussing Caravan, and made note that the chorus was actually:
(all /4)
6, 6, 4, 6, 4, 4, 4, 5
In mine, I used this as the measure map. I think it plays cleaner in the game because that “darker white” horizontal line that denotes downbeats hits where it should. Playing the Hmx Caravan always seemed a little “off” to me in that area, and I realized that’s why. Note-wise it’s the same, just hows it’s visually there. Maybe it was just me who realized that lol.
One thing to keep in mind is that time signatures are not just math. Time signatures are not a way to make measures round up but they represent the feel of the song. 12/8 in example is a very specific beat with accents on 1, 4, 7 and 10. Can you represent it in 4/4? Yes. Is it the way it was written? No, because you are fudging the notes into triplets to make them fit in the 4/4 signature, while 12/8 specifically emphasizes those notes on the 1, 4, 7 and 10.
However, and this is the key thing, who cares. As DNPG said, TS are there, in game, so that you can use the original BPM rate to avoid over or under awarding OD and to have fills end nicely at the end of the measure. So as long as it’s fine on screen and gameplay-wise, go for it.
For what it’s worth, I’ve done some RBN songs where I mapped 6/8 to 6/8, putting the beat markers on 1 and 4 (which is basically the same as my advice for mapping in 12/
and I think it works out really nicely. Here’s an example from a map that I did:I think it looks and works nicely, and if you have any quick triplets, you won’t have to go into weird custom quantizations. It’s purely preference though. Both will work.
How would you guys deal with 7/16 @ 95bps?
7/16 is something that’s really hard to feel by itself, so I’d chart this as 7/8 with two 7/16 measures to each 7/8 measure in your chart. I actually have a chart I abandoned that did exactly this, albeit quite a bit faster.
How would you guys deal with 7/16 @ 95bps?Are you REALLY sure about that, or is that just a guess?
I’m pretty sure, but have been wrong before.
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif” /> The song is
by U.K.
The only MIDI I could find alternates between 7/16 and 4/4, with a side of 5/8 in the bridge.
The song isby U.K.
The only MIDI I could find alternates between 7/16 and 4/4, with a side of 5/8 in the bridge.
7/16 is a bit daft. I’d go 7/8 on the beginning part, then 4/4, then 5/4.
The song isby U.K.
The only MIDI I could find alternates between 7/16 and 4/4, with a side of 5/8 in the bridge.
7/16 is a bit daft. I’d go 7/8 on the beginning part, then 4/4, then 5/4.
As it happens, the measures in question are divisible by 2, so this will work out well.
Daft? Well, yes. But it is U.K. Wetton/Bruford/Jobson/etc. All ex-Crimson/Yes, so… yea. It’s actually quite sane in comparison to another one of theirs that I have been considering. (
) I count over 50 TS changes in that one.
Should be a breeze to map. 
” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.