General authoring advice (long)
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I’m working on my first custom and I could use some advice on how to chart certain things when it’s not immediately obvious. Basically, this song is really freaking hard (in retrospect, extreme metal may not have been the ideal route for my first song), and when I attempt (and I stress attempt) to recreate it “faithfully” it makes Neversoft’s GH3 charts look good.
EDIT: Just wanted to note for reference that the song is in 4/4 at 115 BPM, and mostly 16th notes. So…fast.
1. There are sections with sixteenth note double bass, and a crash on every measure. Totally straightforward…except that he changes which cymbal he hits nearly every time, and I don’t mean alternating. Just a cursory listen yields probably half a dozen or more cymbals in one extended section. However, the sheet music just uses the same standard crash note for every single one. Panic Attack is an example of a song where this kind of thing happens, and HMX basically arbitrarily chose when to switch between B/G. Can anyone suggest some guidelines on how to make that arbitrary determination?
2. The bass line jumps around a lot. After an initial attempt to be as accurate as possible I felt it was a little too insane, so I cleaned it up a little bit and took some liberties with the scale for the sake of playability. Unfortunately, it’s still abnormally difficult for a bass part. If it were a solo-type section I wouldn’t worry about it as much, but that’s one of the main riffs that gets repeated numerous times in the song. Am I overthinking this?
3. There’s a section of the guitar tab that looks like this. I don’t even know where to begin. Obviously those individual D notes should be G, and it seems logical to make the D5 chords (my guitar knowledge is limited – I’m going off the tab here) G/R, but what on earth do I do with the other 10+ chords in that section? Should the three-string chords be three-button chords in the game? How do I keep it from being an unplayable mess, given that it’s probably not reasonable to expect someone to jump from G to Y/B/O back to G at 7.7 notes per second? As with the bass part, this is a riff that’s used heavily in the song.
4. On the the three-button chords: there are a lot of chords with three or more (including some with all six) strings in this song. Generally speaking, what’s a good guideline for deciding what warrants three buttons? The authoring guidelines suggest reserving them for “big” chords, which doesn’t really help much.
5. This song has a crazy solo (surprise!) that uses a lot of descending three-to-four-note scales. If I were to give each note its own lane, it’d take up at least 20. What can I do to make the wrapping feel more natural? Additionally, there are some parts where the tab is…well, not 100% in line with what I hear, largely due to effects, and in many cases the sounds don’t line up with a quantized beat at all. Does anyone have any tips on how to handle stuff like this? At what point do I stop trying to represent every single distinct sound and just follow the tabs? Should I quantize everything or is there some leeway when it comes to effects-induced weirdness?
I realize that I just asked a whole lot of questions, and I don’t necessarily expect to get every single one answered, but any advice I can get would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Alright, let’s get started.
1) In terms of the crashes; yes, if possible it’s nice to author different notes for different sounds. However, we are limited by 3 cymbals, and in the end you have to do what you have to do. Take note, however, that the same cymbal producing different sounds can usually be kept on the same color. Think of a ride cymbal where the drummer hits the bow for the ride and throws in a bell hit for accents. It may be weird to chart that all on Blue, but it’d probably be more* weird to chart them as different colors. While all green’s here may seem awkward, you can probably get away with alternating between Green and Yellow if they are indeed different. Throw in blues for really “distinct” sounding hits.
2) In the end, it is what it is. Some songs are meant to be easy, and some are meant to be impossible. As long as you are absolutely sure that is how it’s played, then it should be charted (under most circumstances). If you’re looking to reduce that any, maybe drop any of those greens that you cannot really hear in the mix, and you can make an argument they aren’t 100% there. Some positions/abilities are easier to produce on an instrument than in our engine. Think of a guitar vibrato. We usually chart them as one sustain, but if it is big enough, it can be done as a trill. Chart what’s there, and what you can hear.
3) In the case here (also, without hearing the song at all), I would probably not chart any 3-note chords unless they produce a very loud and powerful sound. I would agree to the alt strumming on green, and then for the chords, it’s hard to say without hearing. If you post a link to the song (or if you wish to keep it a secret then PM me), I can be of better help here.
4) In a faster song, it’s usually best to avoid quick/sharp transitions to and from 3-note chords. You can get away with little 3’s if you use the spacing to your advantage with 2 note chords. Next to each other (ie, GR, RY) are good for quick and softer chords; Small gaps (GY, RB, YO) are good for larger and more full sounding chords; and the 2-gaps (GB, RO) are nice for strong and distinct chords that you want to stand out. I personally avoid the GO. It’ll take some practice, but use how the chord sounds/is produced to guess how it should be charted.
5) Most ways for charting out descending (in your case would be):
– 3 notes sections lowered: OBY, BYR, YRG, OBY, BYR, YRG…
– 4 notes decending: OBYR, BYRG, OBYR, BYRG, OBYR, BYRG…
– 4 notes alternate: OBYR, OBRG, BYRG, OBYR, OBRG, BYRG…
– Alternating decending: OYBRG, OYBRG, OYBRG…
I’d use one that makes the most sense. As for the quantize, it’s best* to try and keep it on grid. For guitar, I would stick at a 1/32 grid and AT MOST a 1/64 (even that will likely make it a pain in the ass). As much as you may want the effects, in the end it may be better to chart any whammy/pedal/effect/ect as a sustain if they do not produce very apparent different notes that are audible enough to make sense charting a note out for. It may seem lazy, but it’ll likely play better for the player on what he’s hearing. Guitar in RB is usually a “fudging game” as we only have 5 buttons to visualize 6 strings on 20+ frets with effects/pedals/whammy/vibrato/ect. Do what you have to do in the end.
For guitar, I would stick at a 1/32 grid and AT MOST a 1/64.I wouldn’t go finer than 1/32T honestly.
On closer examination, I think I overstated the crash problem. It really sounds more like 2-3 cymbals at different velocities than something like Panic Attack, where there doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.
3) In the case here (also, without hearing the song at all), I would probably not chart any 3-note chords unless they produce a very loud and powerful sound. I would agree to the alt strumming on green, and then for the chords, it’s hard to say without hearing. If you post a link to the song (or if you wish to keep it a secret then PM me), I can be of better help here.4) In a faster song, it’s usually best to avoid quick/sharp transitions to and from 3-note chords. You can get away with little 3’s if you use the spacing to your advantage with 2 note chords. Next to each other (ie, GR, RY) are good for quick and softer chords; Small gaps (GY, RB, YO) are good for larger and more full sounding chords; and the 2-gaps (GB, RO) are nice for strong and distinct chords that you want to stand out. I personally avoid the GO. It’ll take some practice, but use how the chord sounds/is produced to guess how it should be charted.
No problem. I considered constant alt-strumming on G with mostly G/X chords but it just felt “wrong” to represent the song that way. On the other hand, that may be preferable to having ridiculous chords all over the place.
5) Most ways for charting out descending (in your case would be):– 3 notes sections lowered: OBY, BYR, YRG, OBY, BYR, YRG…
– 4 notes decending: OBYR, BYRG, OBYR, BYRG, OBYR, BYRG…
– 4 notes alternate: OBYR, OBRG, BYRG, OBYR, OBRG, BYRG…
– Alternating decending: OYBRG, OYBRG, OYBRG…
I’m familiar with the typical OBY/BYR/YRG pattern from playing, but never paid much attention to how it’s handled when they go beyond three. Is it normal to just wrap around from YRG back to OBY? I remember a GH3 song wrapping all the way around (although it was single, much slower notes) from O to G and it was very obvious and very weird. I guess it’s a little easier to hide in a solo.
I’ve gone ahead and uploaded the solo tab and audio so you can get an idea of what I’m trying to decipher. Measures 68 and 70 are particularly head-scratching due to the effects, but measure 69 is where the most troublesome scales are – removing the context of having played Rock Band for years, it’s actually kind of hilarious that I’m trying to represent that with five colors.
Unfortunately, I’m not all that musically inclined, so it’s difficult for me to just go by “feel” as is so often necessary when it comes to charting guitar/bass. I think the relative lack of ambiguity is probably one of the things I find so appealing about drums.
Thanks again!
something like Panic Attack, where there doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.http://www.drumnuts.com/wep/member-imag … ualPic.jpg
Note the mini cymbals on the right side of the screen and understand why it’s never gonna be translatable in game anyway.
In reference to your crash issue.
You explained that it’s mostly just bass pedal and crashes on some beats. If there is no other cymbal work (ie, hi hat, ride, ect) then it’s really up to you if you want to extend to other colors. Anything will likely work [without hearing the song].
Animation wise, remember you have 2 crashes, and soft/hard hit that you can change between if it “sounds” different. In terms of gameplay, however, I would stick to Green/Yellow (if they sound like crashes), or Green/Blue (if one sounds like bell/other percussion).
If you really wanted to get technical, you could chart out with Yellow/Blue/Green, and use the “ride animation” as a crash hit. I personally wouldn’t recommend and this is likely already being over thought, but it’s an option.
something like Panic Attack, where there doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.http://www.drumnuts.com/wep/member-imag … ualPic.jpg
Note the mini cymbals on the right side of the screen and understand why it’s never gonna be translatable in game anyway.
Heh, I’m quite familiar with Portnoy’s kit. I’ve actually watched a video of him playing Panic Attack (where you can clearly see him switching between cymbals without any real pattern), which is why I knew it made such a good example.
Having listened more closely I’m no longer concerned about the drums. I’ll have to make some minor changes but overall I’m happy with my drum chart. Guitar is another matter…
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