UPDATE: Requesting testers for my first custom: “The Best It’s Gonna Get” by Celldweller

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  • #391087

    UPDATE 05/10/2014:

     

    I have a CON file and I think I may finally be just about done! All that’s left to do is reduce the expert charts for lower difficulties and add drum fills and overdrive markers for all instruments. However, before I start on that I thought I’d upload my current CON file for anyone who would like to test it and give me any tips, feedback, pointers or criticisms on anything that I’ve done. Thanks everyone!

     

    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E … =folder%2c

     

    I’ve included the CON file and an RPP+Audio package for anyone who wants to take a look. A small note though, You should leave the DRYVOX1 track unmuted if you wish to hear all the vocals, as the audio in the SONG AUDIO track is of my backing track which includes only backing vocals. However, some full vocals have been left in the backing mix where I thought it would feel/sound better being sung with the existing vocals as a backing. As a result, some vocals may sound louder than others when listening in Reaper due to being doubled up, but rest assured everything is perfectly balanced between the backing and in-game vox tracks.

     

    UPDATE 26/09/2014:

     

    I’ve now charted expert guitar and bass, as well as made some tweaks to drums based on Nightmare Lyra’s pointers. I’m sure there’s still room for polish and improvement, however.

     

     

    Regarding sustains being too long (mine only have a 1/32nd gap) – this is something I’m now aware of and will be fixed shortly. As always, any feedback is appreciated.

     

    ORIGINAL POST:

     

    First off, this is my first post so let me just say greetings to all of my new fellow customs creators!

     

    So I’ve begun working on my very first custom song, and have just finished charting the pro drums track. I think I’ve done pretty well, but I’m not a drummer in real life or even a rock band pro drummer, so I figured it wouldn’t hurt to see if any more experienced creators/players have any pointers or criticisms before I start reducing it for lower difficulties. Link to the video is below:

     

     

    I’m currently just using the instrumental version of the song so the vocals don’t get in the way while charting instruments. If anyone can give me any feedback, tips or just general impressions, I’d really appreciate it. I’m fully committed to getting this done properly and completely, so expect more updates and questions from me in the coming weeks.

     

    While I’m posting, I do have a quick question. Given the way song starts, I’m thinking the count-in is unnecessary. If I were to get rid of it, do I still need to have the song start at 3.1.00? Or can I move it up a bit?

     

    Thanks in advance!

    #429864
    Farottone
    Keymaster

      You should move the count in 2 measures before the drums come in, so that it still provides its function.

      #429872

      If you plan to make it full band eventually (or enable others to add parts), I would say to keep the intro count-in as is

       

      Looks pretty solid all around. Here are the things I noticed when looking at the video:

       

      The part at 0:34 sorta sounds like a disco beat to me (or at least like it have some 16th rolls on hi-hats here and there), though I know he mixes organic and electronic drum parts frequently so if the organic drums involved do play the charted rhythm it works as is.

       

      1:25, I don’t think charting the hi-hat pedal hits to Yellow here works all that well, partially because the double crash cymbal hits here are charted to G/Y as well a lot of the time which is a bit confusing. I would say to either make all the double crash hits G/B or ignore the hi-hat pedals.

       

      Missing kick under the Yellow at 1:46

       

      2:39, sounds a bit undercharted, I think I hear some uncharted snare hits and possibly kicks too here and there throughout this section, so just look over it and check that

       

      2:52, that is too quick to be comfortably playable by a human and should be made into a disco flip. Remove the hi-hats going along with the red snares, switch places for both (hi-hat to red and snare to yellow), then add a [mix 3 drums0d] event before this section, and a [mix 3 drums0] after it. This will make it much more comfortable to play, as well as avoiding hand crossing on standard drums.

       

      3:16, switch hi-hat and snare positions and add [mix 3 drums0d] and [mix 3 drums0] events accordingly.

       

      5:00, same as 3:16

       

      Any repetitions of parts mentioned should be looked over as well of course

      #429912

      Thank you for your response!

      If you plan to make it full band eventually (or enable others to add parts), I would say to keep the intro count-in as is

      Heh, I actually just finished banging out the expert guitar and bass. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif” /> Video at the bottom.

      The part at 0:34 sorta sounds like a disco beat to me (or at least like it have some 16th rolls on hi-hats here and there), though I know he mixes organic and electronic drum parts frequently so if the organic drums involved do play the charted rhythm it works as is.

      Yep I noticed that too. I think it sounds more like electronic clicking/glitching though, just sort of layered on top. And given that the organic high-hats are so much more clearly audible, I think it would be kinda awkward charting both. That’s my preference, anyway. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />

      1:25, I don’t think charting the hi-hat pedal hits to Yellow here works all that well, partially because the double crash cymbal hits here are charted to G/Y as well a lot of the time which is a bit confusing. I would say to either make all the double crash hits G/B or ignore the hi-hat pedals.

      Not entirely sure what you’re getting at here. When you say ‘hi-hat pedal hits’, are you referring to open hi-hats? ‘Cause I thought I charted them all to blue. Or are you referring to instances where the hi-hat is hit at the same time as the bass pedal? Or (more likely) am I missing the mark completely? For the double crash hits, I used Y/G or B/G depending on the sound – it wasn’t just random. Care to elaborate a bit?

      Missing kick under the Yellow at 1:46.

      Cheers. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif” />

      2:39, sounds a bit undercharted, I think I hear some uncharted snare hits and possibly kicks too here and there throughout this section, so just look over it and check that

      I agree that it *looks* undercharted, but I honestly don’t think I’m missing anything. I’m listening to the lossless WAV on good headphones and I literally can’t hear anything else. I think it’s just one of those sections that sounds like it should be more complex than it actually is.

      2:52, that is too quick to be comfortably playable by a human and should be made into a disco flip. Remove the hi-hats going along with the red snares, switch places for both (hi-hat to red and snare to yellow), then add a [mix 3 drums0d] event before this section, and a [mix 3 drums0] after it. This will make it much more comfortable to play, as well as avoiding hand crossing on standard drums.

       

      3:16, switch hi-hat and snare positions and add [mix 3 drums0d] and [mix 3 drums0] events accordingly.

       

      5:00, same as 3:16

      Lol, yeah I knew I was going to have to do something about those sections, I just wasn’t sure how to go about it. Using the disco flip makes me die a little inside but you’re right. It’s the only way. Here’s where I’m a bit confused though.

       

      I understand the concept of the disco flip and I switched the hi-hats with the snare hits which is fine, but when I added the [mix 3 drums0d] and [mix 3 drums0] events, I noticed that in the RBN Preview, it switches them back to how they looked originally (hit-hats show up as hi-hats even though to player is actually required to hit the snare). So I have to ask, how is the player supposed to know that they have to play a disco flip? Or am I doing something wrong? I hope I’ve explained myself correctly.

       

      Here is the video for all expert instruments if you care to check it out.

       

       

      Made some tweaks to the drums based on your tips and did the disco flip but I hadn’t figured out how to add the text events yet when I made the video. Also, I’m now aware that the sustains are too long (mine only have a 1/32nd gap between the end and the next note) so this will be fixed soon.

       

      Thanks again! <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_biggrin.gif” />

      #429918

      Disco flips activates the notes actually flipping places on Pro Drums while still being playable on standard drums. Try playing for example Everlong first on standard drums and then on Pro drums and you will get the deal.

       

      For 1:25, I am pretty sure the drummer is only using their right hand to play a constant stream of crash cymbals and that all hi-hat hits are from pressing the hi-hat pedal, which is playable still in this case, but as it is with hats being charted as yellow in between the crashes and all that is a bit confusing when you also have some double crash hits charted as Y/G. As I said, simply make all the double crash hits in these sections to B/G to fix this.

      #429929
      Disco flips activates the notes actually flipping places on Pro Drums while still being playable on standard drums. Try playing for example Everlong first on standard drums and then on Pro drums and you will get the deal.

      Got it.

       

      For 1:25, I am pretty sure the drummer is only using their right hand to play a constant stream of crash cymbals and that all hi-hat hits are from pressing the hi-hat pedal, which is playable still in this case, but as it is with hats being charted as yellow in between the crashes and all that is a bit confusing when you also have some double crash hits charted as Y/G. As I said, simply make all the double crash hits in these sections to B/G to fix this.

      It’s definitely not a constant stream of crash hits (or at least not all the same strength), but you could be right about the hi-hat pedal. Regardless, I’m still going to take your advice and make all the double crash hits B/G.

       

      Thanks again for your help.

      #430412

      Just bumping this so people see it. See OP for the update.

      #430425
      Farottone
      Keymaster

        For testing purposes, post a CON and a separate RPP+audio package, so it’s more convenient. I’ll take a look at it once it’s up.

        #430431
        For testing purposes, post a CON and a separate RPP+audio package, so it’s more convenient. I’ll take a look at it once it’s up.

        Done. I’ve updated the link in the OP and added a note about the vox balancing. Cheers. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />

        #430450
        Farottone
        Keymaster

          I’m sorry to disappoint you but I can’t give meaningful feedback, this kind of electronic music I just don’t get (as in “I don’t understand it so I can judge exactly what you authored”, not as in “why would you ever listen to this”). It looks clean, the tempo map seems solid although the audio comes a bit early, judging by the waveform (also, lol @ the sound saturation, tempo mapping like this is a nightmare). Drums wise, electronic music like this is just compromise in terms of authoring and assigning what sounds like a tom to a tom, etc. The only 2 things I can say with certainty is that you should limit those B+G cymbal hits in such a tempo because they’re awkward to hit (also, when translating a drum machine is not bad to fudge it a bit because a human isn’t playing that anyway to being with) and that you have plenty of kicks that doesn’t sound in the song (M39-42 in example).

           

          I’m gonna have to refer you to somebody with experience with this music for the rest, though from the looks of it the work is clean and well organised.

          #430454
          the tempo map seems solid although the audio comes a bit early

          Cool, I’ll adjust this.

           

          lol @ the sound saturation, tempo mapping like this is a nightmare

          Actually it was a piece of piss. The good thing about electronic music that has been tracked, mixed and produced digitally like this is that it is a rock solid BPM throughout – and the remix stems had the BPM documented so I didn’t even have to figure that out. I just typed in the number and found some peaks to line up. Bueno. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_biggrin.gif” />

           

          Drums wise, electronic music like this is just compromise in terms of authoring and assigning what sounds like a tom to a tom, etc

           

          also, when translating a drum machine is not bad to fudge it a bit because a human isn’t playing that anyway to being with

          He actually does play live drums for this and most of his other songs – he just likes to layer shitloads of effects and digital drums all over it. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif” /> But I agree that you just have to compromise, and I did the best I could.

           

          you have plenty of kicks that doesn’t sound in the song (M39-42 in example)

          Yeah. This was one of those compromises. The effect makes it hard to tell whether this is actually supposed to be a kick or not. I had considered assigning those “kicks” to the yellow tom, but the same part is played a little later with the ride over the top (M67-70), so that would have made it awkward as hell. I didn’t want to drop the notes completely so for the sake of consistency I went with the kick.

           

          from the looks of it the work is clean and well organised.

          This is about as good a response as I could have hoped for. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />

           

          So, the big question. From what you have seen, once this is complete (with overdrive markers, fills and lower difficulties), do you think it will be good enough for a release? I mean obviously it will go through more rigorous testing and scrutiny… but what do you think?

           

          Thanks for the input!

          #430468
          Farottone
          Keymaster
            Drums wise, electronic music like this is just compromise in terms of authoring and assigning what sounds like a tom to a tom, etc

             

            also, when translating a drum machine is not bad to fudge it a bit because a human isn’t playing that anyway to being with

            He actually does play live drums for this and most of his other songs – he just likes to layer shitloads of effects and digital drums all over it. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif”> But I agree that you just have to compromise, and I did the best I could.

             

            Most electronic material is then played live, but it’s not played live during recording, hence composition takes usually in account very little of how the track will be played. For that reason drum machines will usually be unnatural to play: a good example is a fast series of hi hat notes that on a drum machines can easily be straight while if composed with a human playing it in mind will result in a two handed disco beat.

             

            you have plenty of kicks that doesn’t sound in the song (M39-42 in example)
            Yeah. This was one of those compromises. The effect makes it hard to tell whether this is actually supposed to be a kick or not. I had considered assigning those “kicks” to the yellow tom, but the same part is played a little later with the ride over the top (M67-70), so that would have made it awkward as hell. I didn’t want to drop the notes completely so for the sake of consistency I went with the kick.

             

            Kicks are the most distinctive sound you can get in Rock Band. Even snare can be assigned to something different (a flam has snare on yellow too) and other sounds can be assigned to red (the rim shots, an electronic strong pad, etc.), but not kicks. That’s something that would prevent the song from being released in the C3 pipeline. If you do a lot of electronic music an important aspect of the drums is choosing what can stay and what should go, because unless you have stems and you can mix the song differently, something will just not fit in.

             

            Briefly going over it again, one other important thing is chords. 3 note chords should usually be left for big chords, as you know. Now, in a song like this where you only have 3 note chords (single notes not withstanding) and a very processed guitar, using 2 note chords for most of the song and leaving the 3 note chords for specific sections will give a better feel to the song and make it less awkward to play (considering, again, the nature of the song).

             

            Nyx just posted a comment on a song in PT: “I dislike the idea of the drums struggling to keep up in a soft rock song”. That’s a great rule of thumb. When something needs translation always ask yourself: what’s the feel of the song and how should it be played? Never make a somewhat easy song something awkward to play in game. HMX did that once in a while and it wasn’t good. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_wink.gif”>

             

            from the looks of it the work is clean and well organised.
            This is about as good a response as I could have hoped for. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif”>

             

            So, the big question. From what you have seen, once this is complete (with overdrive markers, fills and lower difficulties), do you think it will be good enough for a release? I mean obviously it will go through more rigorous testing and scrutiny… but what do you think?

             

            Can’t see why not, we have surely seen far worse.

            #430489

            I haven’t checked this closely enough to say for sure, but when I watched the video the kicks didn’t seem overcharted to me, and being someone who have done a lot of Electronic stuff myself (both charts and composing) I know it’s common to sometimes use different kick sounds for different parts for contrasting effects in certain subgenres, so that is worth keeping in mind that there is possible to have two different sounds for a kick in a song when it’s electronic. Just be sure it is meant by the artist to be perceived as a kick and not a tom.

             

            Also looking at the new full band preview, I noticed that there are sometimes no space between sustains on G/B, that needs fixing. I assume the tempo is over 80bpm and under 200bpm, so that means there should be a 16th space between the end of the sustain and the next note on Expert and Hard, 3/16th space on Medium and a 4th of space on Easy.

             

            Guitar have a bit of a awkward chord progression going on in the intro, you don’t want to use G/O chords in any normal circumstance unless there is no other way to wrap something, and it does sound like the same chord as the G/Y before it to me, so either make it G/Y or G/B I would say. The B/O chords after sound higher but not “high enough” to be a B/O if that makes any sense, basically I think it might work better as Y/B or even R/Y or R/B unless that clashes later in the song.

             

            1:06 and out have some sustains that are too short. A sustain need to be long enough to be possible to whammy, so it should at the very least be 2/16th long (at the very least, and even that is too short above 160bpm). If that is impossible to do without overlapping or touching sustains, make it unsustained.

             

            1:25 and out, you should never use 3-note chords in a constantly moving riff due to it being extremely awkward, 3-note chords are to be saved for “big chords” that are played on most of the strings on a guitar without going on a fast pattern (for example, acoustic guitar strumming using all 6 strings), for riffs like these you should use 2-note chords if chords, though to me it actually sounds like single notes just with more distortion applied than before

             

            Hopefully these notes will help

            #430490
            Farottone
            Keymaster

              1:06 and out have some sustains that are too short. A sustain need to be long enough to be possible to whammy, so it should at the very least be 2/16th long (at the very least, and even that is too short above 160bpm). If that is impossible to do without overlapping or touching sustains, make it unsustained.

               

              Or, quicker, run CAT that includes a Fix sustain command that takes into account HMX rules and BPM to trim sustains. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif”>

              #430502
              A bunch of stuff about 3-note chords

              I agree that the chorus does seem a bit awkward that way, but I don’t want to have them ALL 2-note chords as I think that would just be too easy/boring/straight-forward to play. What if I compromised and had a mix, using mostly 2-note chords and 3’s for the accent chords? Something like this…

               

              |3-22|3-22|3-23|-2-2| |3-22|3-22|2223|-222| |3-22|3-22|3-23|-2-2| |3-22|3-22|3-22|222-|

               

              Do you think that would be okay? I’ll be going through the rest of the song and cutting down on 3-note chords as well. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_smile.gif” />

               

              Thanks for everything else, too, guys. I’ve taken it all in and will be going through the song again cleaning it up based on your feedback. I’ve started on a different song for the moment though, as I think I need a short break from that one. <img decoding=” src=”/wp-content/uploads/invision_emoticons/default_SA_cheeky.001.gif” /> But please, let me know if you think of anything else.

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